Published: September 2000

WTOP: We're going to talk about workplace issues, and in particular worker retention. That's a big issue for everybody. Not just the government but also the private sector. What kind of turnover rate is the government information technology sector experiencing these days?

HOBBS: You're absolutely correct. It's a big issue for all of us. Right now, overall and government wide, we're experiencing about a two to three percent turnover rate. I can tell you in my own department, which is the USDA, it's about three to five percent. And in some agencies I've heard it's as high as six to nine. From a general workforce standpoint, all of those rates are clearly very acceptable. However the problem that creates for the government is that our workforce is aging. And because our turnover rate is so low, we don't have a correspondingly good intake rate. So our workforce is aging. We're not bringing people in on the entry-level side. And that's going to have major problems for us because … we're starting to see a lot of people retiring and we're not replacing those folks. That's where we're having a problem. Unlike our private sector colleagues who in some instances are looking at 20 and 30 percent turnover rates as people move around in the industry, as new companies are created, and addressing the whole "dot-com" phenomena.

WTOP: That is a tough boat to be in. Particularly if there is an IT worker shortage in the private sector anyway. How do you find that young, entry-level talent?

HOBBS: Well, I have two basic philosophies. One, you've got to work with your human resources department folks because they're going to help you procedure wise, and they're going to help you within the government system figure out the ways you can do things in a more expedited and a fast way. But predominately, it's about managers and supervisors not just relying upon traditional mechanisms. You've got to be personally engaged. You've got to be involved yourself. You've got to be out talking to kids at the high school level. You should be talking to kids at college fairs. You should be talking to folks who are interested and looking for jobs. You've got to be willing to look at things in a non-traditional way. And not just go to a four year college and sit in the computer science department and folks will come up and look for jobs within your agency. You've got to be prepared to go out and look at technical schools. You've got to go out and talk to people and get personally engaged in this process. That's how you're going to find the kind of folks that you need to have. Managers who tend to do that tend to do better. The other thing is that you've got to develop some sense of a reputation that you're an organization that believes in training people, getting people engaged in the work that they're doing [and] helping people to move on to bigger and better things. Traditionally, we've always thought of going to one job and being there for 15 or 20 or 30 years until we retire. You've got to figure now the way things are done, people are going to work for five, six or seven different companies before they retire. Reputation is critical and important. Because if you have a reputation for helping people to develop and to move on to bigger and better things, it's going to be a lot easier to entice people to come to work for you.

WTOP: You're also saddled with something the private sector isn't; the speed at which you can offer somebody a job and hire them. You can't just interview somebody on Tuesday and offer them the job on Wednesday. How do you deal with that, and are there efforts in the works to speed up the hiring process?

HOBBS: You're absolutely right. I like to tell folks it's one of the prices we pay for living in a democratic society. We afford folks the opportunity to compete in a competitive way for jobs in the federal sector. And so the speed to seat sometimes isn't as rapid as it may be in private sector companies. And there are experiences that we have had where we've lost candidates because we had them on the vine too long in terms of trying to get them through the process. Obviously, that is one of the issues that the CIO Council, of which I am a member, is taking a great deal of interest in. We're working very closely with our collegues in the human resources community to see what we can do to speed some of those things up. And we've been able to do that in some instances. During the Y2K situation coming into the year 2000 we were able to do a number of things that allowed us to move more expeditiously in terms of offering jobs and bringing people [on board]. Clearly, what we're starting to do now is look at that. We think it will take some legislative changes. The Office of Personnel Management is working closely with us. We think we'll see some improvements in that sense. The other thing is … as I talk about this personal engagement thing, is finding candidates early in the process. Looking for candidates before you actually have a need for candidates. Helping people to get pre-qualified before you actually go out with an announcement. Understanding better what's available within your region or within the scope of your announcement so you have targeted a minimum number of days necessary to advertise a job but to give you the maximum amount of candidates. That's the game. You've got to understand the rules. You've got to be engaged in it. It still takes longer than we think it should, but we're getting a lot better and a lot smarter about doing it.

WTOP: There have been some initiatives floating around to counteract the stock options and high salaries the private sector can offer. There's been talk about internships and scholarships and student loan pay-back programs. Has there been any progress in any of those avenues?

HOBBS: We think that we've been making progress. We recognize that we are behind the power curve. And certainly, we don't have the kind of compensation system where we can offer some of the salaries that we read about in magazines and hear about across the Internet. Our own personal experiences are that we're finding kids coming out of college are generally starting in the industry around $50,000 where in most estimates our best case scenario is about $37,500. But what we've been able to do is start looking at developing more programs directly related toward recruitment and retention which are starting to help and which are allowing us to pay bonuses to folks coming into the government as well as to retain folks. We have some special salary rate studies going on. And that's being sponsored by the Office of Personnel Management and what that means is that they're looking at the country broken down by regions and making choices and decisions about what the impact is from a financial standpoint in terms of our abilities to hire and retain people. In many instances, what that does is allow us the opportunity to offer salaries at a higher entry-level rate and to people who exist within the computer technology fields in government as a whole. So in that instance, we've made some progress. We're hopeful though, that we'll be able to do some things in a very special way to look at salary rates or even a special salary rate for IT professionals across the government. That's something that we're working very closely with the Office of Personnel Management on, and providing input to the Office of Management and Budget, and hopefully as we move through the upcoming elections and get beyond the transition period, it is something that we'll be able to work closely with the new administration on in terms of rethinking how compensation is accounted for at the federal level.

WTOP: Government downsizing. How has that affected the government IT workforce? We know that there are now many outsourcers and contractors. That's not necessarily a bad thing is it?

HOBBS: That's something that we're always called upon to explain. And you're absolutely correct. Outsourcing is not a bad thing. I tend to think of information technology in the government and information technology from the standpoint of vendor service providers and contractors as one kind of virtual IT community. Because we do see movement of IT professionals both from the government into industry and, though some folks may not believe it, of people from industry into government. So, I look at those as one virtual community. I think that outsourcing is a good choice. It's one of the things that's in a good manager's tool kit. You have to look at it though and understand what you're outsourcing. Because there are some things that, clearly, industry does better than the government. And so where those things are appropriate to your program, you really should take them on if it's going to provide you with the base level of service that you need. You're going to get it at a good cost, but you have to be careful that you not outsource the management, the mandate and the reasons for why you are there which is to make sure that the citizens get provided the goods and services in a non-discriminatory way and that those things are delivered. So, outsourcing is a benefit, it's a tool, it's one in the tool kit - but it's not the answer to the whole problem.

WTOP: Ira, anything you want to add about workforce issues or employee retention?

HOBBS: The one thing that I always like to add is that in the past we've been flattered because people wanted to come to work for the government. Go back to the days of the Kennedys and the Johnsons when this whole thing about really contributing to the country and to the citizenry was really a drawing factor. That doesn't much exist anymore. We have to do it now based on the merits. And to do it on the merits, we have to change the paradigm. No longer can we wait for people to come to us. We have to go to the people. So my whole mantra about personal engagement is what I preach to managers across the government. And that is if you want to see a change, you've got to be a part. You've got to be a part of the change-agent. You can't allow someone else to do it for you. You've got to go out, look folks in the eye, explain what's exciting about your program, get people excited about the kind of stuff that's you're doing and bring them in. That's it for me. The big word - personal engagement.

For more information about the USDA's Office of Information Technology, visit their Web site at www.ocio.usda.gov.

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